Confused about FPS when exporting...

[internetpilot 3]

I'm a little confused about FPS when exporting to AVI.  Shouldn't this be something that I can set in the encoder?  Say, the usual North American standard of 30fps?  

I ask because my animation videos always turn out at 50fps, and I cannot seem to find a way to change that.  It causes problems when importing it into a video editor, and I always have to convert it (re-encode using another app) to get it from 50fps to 30fps, but then that makes my animations look a little jerky because of reducing it by 20fps.  It just seems like it would be better to render it that way.  I tried the stickied tutorial about tempo/render speed, but that doesn't seem to solve my problem.  

What am I missing?  Thanks!  

[RowanSkie 341]

Your missing something alright... I forgot what part it is... And its with the top interface... With a bar and no. 20 beside it...

What was it? Changing the lever either slows or speed it.

[internetpilot 3]

Well, I hope I'm missing something more than that, because although the slider does change the tempo of the animation, it has absolutely no affect on the final FPS when exporting to an AVI. It always ends up at 50fps whether I set the slider all the way to the left (slow) or right (fast). Even when I export the demo animation (Disco) it's 50fps, so I'm pretty sure it's not just something I'm doing in my animations.

It seems like it would be a vcapture setting, but I don't see any way to change that in the GUI. Is there an INI or CFG file that I can manually edit?

[Emunator 3.1k]

The slider does change the rate of which the animation renders out.
However, due to some compression settings on codecs, the actual frames may vary.

If you haven't Already, a Moderator named Zuex made a post about using a formula to finding the correct FPS rate of which you video should render.

http://www.mineimatorforums.com/index.php?/topic/3001-algorithm-for-perfect-render-speed-make-your-animations-exactly-the-speed-you-want-them/

[internetpilot 3]

Zuexs' post is the "stickied" post I mentioned in the OP.  When I try to use his formula, it doesn't work because my framerate is always 100%, even for a larger animation.  I have tried exporting an AVI with the tempo slider set at 3 and at 50, but it makes absolutely no difference as the AVI is always encoded at 50fps.  I have no problems rendering it at the speed/tempo that I want (I set that with the slider), but then when I bring the AVI into a video editor to add music/sound, things get out of sync because I have to first convert the AVI from 50fps to 30fps.  I've tried four or five different codecs, and I've tried changing the AVI recorder from vcapture to GMCap, but the result is still (always) 50fps.  I've even tried it on two different computers (one running XP and the other Windows 7).  

I just have no clue how to set the AVI export for 30fps.  Every other video/animation app I've used has a setting for FPS.  Please don't view this as a criticism of this app, because I love it, but I just don't know how to get it to the FPS that I need.    

Edited December 11, 2013 by internetpilot

[Emunator 3.1k]

I honestly don't know what your saying...

An AVI is just a bunch of compressed images...(You can get Extensions so they have sound but it turns into an MPEG file I think)
The FPS varies on the codec that is compressing them as well as the program doing it.
If it were always 50FPS, then every video i would have made would been of twice as fast and twice as much memory.

 

"Every other video/animation app I've used has a setting for FPS"
It does have a setting for FPS, but I believe your problem is "always encoded at 50fps".
Keyword being Encoded.
This might have t do witht he Vcapture and GMcap.
It sounds like its causing issues, But its always worked fine with me.

 

Try and reinstall Mine-Imator.

Also, what Mine-Imator Version are you using?

Also, When you play the video in side the Mine-Imator 3-D viewport, does the Slider change the FPS or speed of the animation in there?
If it does, then do what some other users do and use an external program to record the animation at the desired FPS.
If it does not, then it's probably a bug or something External interfering with it.

 

Edited December 11, 2013 by Emunator

[ÜberKiller 7.5k]

Zuexs' post is the "stickied" post I mentioned in the OP.  When I try to use his formula, it doesn't work because my framerate is always 100%, even for a larger animation.  I have tried exporting an AVI with the tempo slider set at 3 and at 50, but it makes absolutely no difference as the AVI is always encoded at 50fps.  I have no problems rendering it at the speed/tempo that I want (I set that with the slider), but then when I bring the AVI into a video editor to add music/sound, things get out of sync because I have to first convert the AVI from 50fps to 30fps.  I've tried four or five different codecs, and I've tried changing the AVI recorder from vcapture to GMCap, but the result is still (always) 50fps.  I've even tried it on two different computers (one running XP and the other Windows 7).  

I just have no clue how to set the AVI export for 30fps.  Every other video/animation app I've used has a setting for FPS.  Please don't view this as a criticism of this app, because I love it, but I just don't know how to get it to the FPS that I need.    

This might happen due to a bug where Mine-imator exports a video too fast. I have had this before, but have never seen a video always export at 50 fps. But your best bet is to check the settings in your video editor on what FPS videos it will support. Though I just recommend exporting at 30 fps because youtube has a 30 fps limit anyways.

[Ayhay 2.4k]

If what Uberkiller said is true:

 

1. If you are using 0.6.2. Redownload it and try it.

2. If you are using 0.6.2, try the 0.7 demo instead.

3. If you are using the 0.7 demo. Redownload it and try it.

[Emunator 3.1k]

I talked to david for you, he told me he is improving on it and he admitted himself the AVI extension files are buggy.
However, he told me that they will be drastically improved in future releases.

 

So I recommended doing what Ayhay said, Just delete the current version and re-download, or if using an older version, use 0.7 demo as it has some major bug fixes.

[RowanSkie 341]

Codec. Microsoft Video 1. You using it?

[internetpilot 3]

Wow, thanks everyone for trying to help me with this!  This will probably be a rather long reply with all the multi-quotes.

 

I honestly don't know what your saying...

An AVI is just a bunch of compressed images...(You can get Extensions so they have sound but it turns into an MPEG file I think)
The FPS varies on the codec that is compressing them as well as the program doing it.
If it were always 50FPS, then every video i would have made would been of twice as fast and twice as much memory.

 

"Every other video/animation app I've used has a setting for FPS"
It does have a setting for FPS, but I believe your problem is "always encoded at 50fps".
Keyword being Encoded.
This might have t do witht he Vcapture and GMcap.
It sounds like its causing issues, But its always worked fine with me.

 

Try and reinstall Mine-Imator.

Also, what Mine-Imator Version are you using?

Also, When you play the video in side the Mine-Imator 3-D viewport, does the Slider change the FPS or speed of the animation in there?
If it does, then do what some other users do and use an external program to record the animation at the desired FPS.
If it does not, then it's probably a bug or something External interfering with it.

 

 

To be honest, I was (and still am) having difficulty explaining exactly what I'm asking because I think there is some confusion of terms (specifically frame rate and FPS) between the Tempo setting frame rate of Mine-imator and the video standard or video quality frame rate (NTSC, PAL, etc.).  I'm referring to the video standard or video quality frame rate.  For NTSC, that's 29.97 (or 30) FPS, but the video export function of Mine-imator (at least for me for some reason) seems to always produce AVI videos at 50 FPS, regardless of what I have set the Tempo slider at (I usually have it set at 12 but I've tried it at 3 and 50 with the same results of 50 FPS).  My animations when exported to AVI are not too fast or too slow -- they are exactly the speed that I set them at on the Tempo slider.  However, VLC player and Cyberlink PowerDirector (video editor) report the AVI as being 50 FPS and PowerDirector warns me that when I encode the project, there will be some loss of quality when this clip is converted to the NTSC standard of 30 FPS.  I was just trying to see if there was a setting (even if it's deep in a CFG file) where I can force the original capture to 30 FPS.  

I've tried both v0.6.2 as well as the v0.7 demo, and they both put out a 50 FPS AVI export no matter how I set the Tempo slider.  One interesting thing is the capture for v0.7 demo is significantly slower for the same animation, so when I tried it I had hopes that something more or different was going on there, but it turned out to be the same with regard to FPS.  

I have tried re-downloading and installing both v0.6.2 and v0.7 twice on two different computers, but it's still puts out 50 FPS AVI exports.  

I have to say that I do not think it's a coincidence that the Tempo slider caps out at 50 and my video captures are also at 50 FPS.  50 FPS is a rather unusual, non-standard video FPS, so I suspect that Mine-imator is passing on the 50 FPS setting to the codec and then that's the FPS setting the codec is using to encode the video.  Again, when I use the term FPS, I mean it only as a video quality -- not an animation speed.  Just because a video is 50, 100, 150 FPS doesn't mean that it will be slower or faster than real-time, it just means it will be higher quality and show better motion capture.  It will, of course, be a bigger file, but it shouldn't have any effect on the speed or tempo of the video unless the device or app you're using to play it back on can't handle such a high FPS.  
 

This might happen due to a bug where Mine-imator exports a video too fast. I have had this before, but have never seen a video always export at 50 fps. But your best bet is to check the settings in your video editor on what FPS videos it will support. Though I just recommend exporting at 30 fps because youtube has a 30 fps limit anyways.

My video editor (Cyberlink PowerDirector) can definitely handle any FPS that you want to throw at it, but when I render the entire video project, there will be a loss of quality when it converts a 50 FPS source video to a standard NTSC (and YouTube) 30 FPS output.  I'd like to avoid that quality loss if possible by having a 30 FPS source video.  

 

If what ÜberKiller said is true:

 

1. If you are using 0.6.2. Redownload it and try it.

2. If you are using 0.6.2, try the 0.7 demo instead.

3. If you are using the 0.7 demo. Redownload it and try it.

Did that 2x (on two different PCs -- my old one and my new one), and I end up with 50 FPS every time.  And it's not just my animation creations -- I've downloaded some other .mani files, as well as used the Disco.mani demo, and they all encode at 50 FPS.  I've tried different codecs (and I seem to have very different codecs on these two computers), but I always end up with 50 FPS exports.  

 

I talked to The Glorious David for you, he told me he is improving on it and he admitted himself the AVI extension files are buggy.
However, he told me that they will be drastically improved in future releases.

 

So I recommended doing what Mr. Braindex said, Just delete the current version and re-download, or if using an older version, use 0.7 demo as it has some major bug fixes.

 

Thanks for talking to him about it.  Please know (and pass this on to him if you think about it) that I wasn't bringing all this up as a bug report or even a complaint.  I love Mine-imator and found it to be an incredible capable Minecraft animator app and the whole interface very intuitive.  I cannot compliment The Glorious David enough on this app!  I was hoping this was an easy fix or something I was just missing in a setting somewhere or possibly in a configuration file that had to be edited outside the app.  

Oh well, I will just be patient and work with it as-is.  It's definitely good enough.  It's producing excellent quality videos that are then reduced in quality when uploading to YouTube anyway, so any loss in quality from converting the AVI export from 50 FPS to 30 FPS is probably negligible and I seriously doubt that anyone is going to notice it on YouTube.  I think I only notice it because I see the source files/originals which are sharp as heck coming out of Mine-imator.   

 

Codec. Microsoft Video 1. You using it?

Yes, I'm using MicrosoftVideo 1.  I've tried changing the compression settings in the two places that you can, but it has no affect on the FPS.  


Again, thanks everyone for your suggestions.  I'm sorry -- I just noticed this was in the Tutorials, Tips, and Tricks forum.  I could've sworn I posted this in the Help forum.  This was my first post here so it had to be approved by a moderator.  I'm not sure if they moved it here or if I just had a nube brain-fart and posted in the wrong forum.  

I did have a thought -- I have Mirillis Action! capture software for capturing Let's Plays, etc.  Is it possible to play the animation in Mine-imator fullscreen (like when it does the video export) so that I can then use Action! to capture the animation?  Because I can definitely set the FPS (as well as resolution, format, etc.) in Action!.  I can't find a way to play the animation fullscreen though (without the menu icons, timeline, tools, etc.). 

[Ayhay 2.4k]

 

I did have a thought -- I have Mirillis Action! capture software for capturing Let's Plays, etc.  Is it possible to play the animation in Mine-imator fullscreen (like when it does the video export) so that I can then use Action! to capture the animation?  Because I can definitely set the FPS (as well as resolution, format, etc.) in Action!.  I can't find a way to play the animation fullscreen though (without the menu icons, timeline, tools, etc.). 

 

Look to the corners of the GUI very carefully. There are padlocks, click them so they are unlocked and put your mouse in the middle. They should shift away.

[internetpilot 3]

You rock!  Thank you!  I unchecked "Show Help" and that gave me a full screen viewing of the animation.  Shift+Spacebar starts it.  That solves all my issues because now I can just record it with Action! at 1080p and 30 FPS.  

[internetpilot 3]

Just an update, using Action! did not really help me as it produced usable, but unreliable results to encode the animation.  I just went back to the the built-in capture function, encoded it at the usual 50fps that it always defaults to, and then re-encoded it as the highest quality, lowest compression MP4 in either Handbrake or AnyVideoConverter making sure it converted from 50fps to 29.97fps.   If I let my video editor (Cyberlink PowerDirector v11) handle the conversion from 50fps, it doesn't look as good and there are problems with syncing lyrics, etc. accurately.  

If nothing else, this "issue" has forced me to really look at all the features/settings of Mine-imator, and my head exploded when I found the slider for elbows and knees!  WOW.  

[GLaDOSV_3 52]

What i would do is convert it to 30fps and then work with it.