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Oblivion GEN 6.0


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Oh damn, i really  thought this was over, but here we go.

Dear @Mercury, Criticism is supposed to be taken, that's true, but not all kinds of criticism.
I've gotten some criticism that I can perfectly get behind, and I've even upvoted some of the critique i've gotten - your first comment included. Or Dragonpixel who constructively said that he'd avoid using pillow shading along with some other things.

The type of criticism that I cannot take seriously is the aggressive type. Pretty much all form of criticism that comes from "a higher place" - that has nothing good to say about your work and simply tells you what to change.

Now remember, I've shared this rig here for people to see and use for themselves, not for the forum to pick "what's wrong with it".
Don't get me wrong, with all your help, I was able to find a bunch of things I didn't like about the rig myself and I've changed that. I wouldn't have been able to find those things on my own, so thanks for that.
But I'm the one who owns the rig and I'm the one who gets to change it. And there are a bunch of things on it that i prefer to keep the way they are - for instance: I don't like the cartoony feel you get when you put the pupils together; i want to keep them apart as it doesn't make my character look like a child. That's 100% a personal preference and I have all the right to keep it that way. If you like the pupils closer together, then move them there yourself and use it like that in your animations, there's nothing stopping you. But I'd like to keep the original pupils the way they are.

That's not "deflecting criticism", that's simply "having a preference" - and I really feel like this place needs to be more aware of it.
Simply put - if you don't like it, that doesn't mean I MUST change it. I've made the rig for myself and shared it in case anyone wants to use it. That doesn't give anyone here the authority for changes.

As far as the textures go, I agree, they're not really the best textures in the world - as I'm no texture artist. But on the other hand, I really don't see the big issue this place is making of it. I don't think they're THAT bad, they feel pretty alright to me. If you're referring to the face, when you mention pillow shading, then yes, at some point I'll probably make it more obvious that that's a beard. If you're referring to the "noise texture sweater", that's the real life sweater pattern, it's supposed to look that way. If you're referring to the rest of the clothing on other rigs, I honestly don't see the big issue. Not saying it's professional, but I'm also not saying it's in desperate need of fixing.

Sometimes in this forum it feels like that certain techniques (like pillow shading) are targeted, simply because people say it's bad, not because it was actually that awfully unappealing to watch - as I've said, I agree the textures could be better, but I dont think it's as bad as this place is making of it.

And I feel like i need to clarify that I'm not attacking you, or defending myself, or being arrogant or any of that stuff, I'm simply expressing the way I feel about the situation. Thank you again for your input and feedback, but I honestly don't feel like I'm deflecting criticism, I simply like things the way they are and don't share your preferred style.

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2 hours ago, SharpWind said:

Oh damn, i really  thought this was over, but here we go.

Dear @Mercury, Criticism is supposed to be taken, that's true, but not all kinds of criticism.
I've gotten some criticism that I can perfectly get behind, and I've even upvoted some of the critique i've gotten - your first comment included. Or Dragonpixel who constructively said that he'd avoid using pillow shading along with some other things.

The type of criticism that I cannot take seriously is the aggressive type. Pretty much all form of criticism that comes from "a higher place" - that has nothing good to say about your work and simply tells you what to change.

Now remember, I've shared this rig here for people to see and use for themselves, not for the forum to pick "what's wrong with it".
Don't get me wrong, with all your help, I was able to find a bunch of things I didn't like about the rig myself and I've changed that. I wouldn't have been able to find those things on my own, so thanks for that.
But I'm the one who owns the rig and I'm the one who gets to change it. And there are a bunch of things on it that i prefer to keep the way they are - for instance: I don't like the cartoony feel you get when you put the pupils together; i want to keep them apart as it doesn't make my character look like a child. That's 100% a personal preference and I have all the right to keep it that way. If you like the pupils closer together, then move them there yourself and use it like that in your animations, there's nothing stopping you. But I'd like to keep the original pupils the way they are.

That's not "deflecting criticism", that's simply "having a preference" - and I really feel like this place needs to be more aware of it.
Simply put - if you don't like it, that doesn't mean I MUST change it. I've made the rig for myself and shared it in case anyone wants to use it. That doesn't give anyone here the authority for changes.

As far as the textures go, I agree, they're not really the best textures in the world - as I'm no texture artist. But on the other hand, I really don't see the big issue this place is making of it. I don't think they're THAT bad, they feel pretty alright to me. If you're referring to the face, when you mention pillow shading, then yes, at some point I'll probably make it more obvious that that's a beard. If you're referring to the "noise texture sweater", that's the real life sweater pattern, it's supposed to look that way. If you're referring to the rest of the clothing on other rigs, I honestly don't see the big issue. Not saying it's professional, but I'm also not saying it's in desperate need of fixing.

Sometimes in this forum it feels like that certain techniques (like pillow shading) are targeted, simply because people say it's bad, not because it was actually that awfully unappealing to watch - as I've said, I agree the textures could be better, but I dont think it's as bad as this place is making of it.

And I feel like i need to clarify that I'm not attacking you, or defending myself, or being arrogant or any of that stuff, I'm simply expressing the way I feel about the situation. Thank you again for your input and feedback, but I honestly don't feel like I'm deflecting criticism, I simply like things the way they are and don't share your preferred style.

I see.

Could I at least tweak the rig and show to the rest of the people how a 'proper' rig from the MI community wants compared to yours? I won't make it downloadable since the original owner is from you. 

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7 hours ago, Mercury said:

I see.

Could I at least tweak the rig and show to the rest of the people how a 'proper' rig from the MI community wants compared to yours? I won't make it downloadable since the original owner is from you. 

Sure, I like the fact that it wouldn't be downloadable, the idea is pretty nice

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Welp, no idea what’s going on here, regardless I don’t think the overall rig is bad, including texture, unfortunately I do not have any experience in texturing or modeling characters (I mostly model objects, Animate and do lighting) but the rig does look off, regardless both sides could’ve done better ngl

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sjeesh

why is almost everyone so aggresive towards the texture and the pupils?

if he likes it like this, why would you react like this i mean you may not like it but your preference is not what is needed for it to be nice for everyone. everyone has ther own taste so please, give someone tips for what could be done better instead of immediatly saying that it is sad and tragic(someone actually said this)

 

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23 hours ago, IPlayMc said:

sjeesh

why is almost everyone so aggresive towards the texture and the pupils?

if he likes it like this, why would you react like this i mean you may not like it but your preference is not what is needed for it to be nice for everyone. everyone has ther own taste so please, give someone tips for what could be done better instead of immediatly saying that it is sad and tragic(someone actually said this)

 

People were giving him harsh criticism, and he retaliated. It spiralled out of control from there, with BOTH sides being to blame for starting it.
The criticism definitely shouldn't have been as harsh as it was and really could've been said much nicer without the insults and hate, however he also shouldn't have retaliated the way he did, completely disregarding any and all criticism and exchanging insults.

I know I'm really late in saying this, but I hope everyone now realises this so they can back off a little with the hate and not hold grudges, and I hope @SharpWind realises this too, so he can try to be a little more open to some of the criticism without holding a grudge on the entire community.
Sure, there will always be haters out there, but just know that not everyone is out to get you; some of the criticism can be completely valid, from people who genuinely want to help you. I'm obviously not asking you to act on all the criticism and feedback you receive, or even any of it in fact; all I'm asking is that you be a little more open to it.
Even the little things, the little subtle change here and there, can go a long way! You might even find something you like even more.

All feedback is helpful for improvement. Just don't let grudges get in the way of giving that feedback, because then that just becomes bashing. We can all learn from this big mistake we've caused and become better in the future.

Now, I've said what I wanted to say (albeit like a month later than I should've, oops), this whole situation pretty much ended over two months ago. Can we please stop talking about it? :sweat:

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22 hours ago, __Mine__ said:

People were giving him harsh criticism, and he retaliated. It spiralled out of control from there, with BOTH sides being to blame for starting it.
The criticism definitely shouldn't have been as harsh as it was and really could've been said much nicer without the insults and hate, however he also shouldn't have retaliated the way he did, completely disregarding any and all criticism and exchanging insults.

I know I'm really late in saying this, but I hope everyone now realises this so they can back off a little with the hate and not hold grudges, and I hope @SharpWind realises this too, so he can try to be a little more open to some of the criticism without holding a grudge on the entire community.
Sure, there will always be haters out there, but just know that not everyone is out to get you; some of the criticism can be completely valid, from people who genuinely want to help you. I'm obviously not asking you to act on all the criticism and feedback you receive, or even any of it in fact; all I'm asking is that you be a little more open to it.
Even the little things, the little subtle change here and there, can go a long way! You might even find something you like even more.

All feedback is helpful for improvement. Just don't let grudges get in the way of giving that feedback, because then that just becomes bashing. We can all learn from this big mistake we've caused and become better in the future.

Now, I've said what I wanted to say (albeit like a month later than I should've, oops), this whole situation pretty much ended over two months ago. Can we please stop talking about it? :sweat:

I've recently made a video where i called everyone out. People who criticised, as well as me, who retaliated. The situation was pretty pointless and dumb from all of us.

The feedback here tends to be pretty aggressive, which is dumb, and I usually come to this place with a mindset, which says "these people just wanna trash stuff", which is even dumber. Like i've said in the video, we're all trying to improve and enjoy this. A hobby shouldn't feel pressured and we should be proud of each other and help each other improve, not try to make things harder for each other.
I've moved the pupils closer together, but only to an extend I feel comfortable with, but I've started putting pupils closer for my other rigs.
"I'm not saying that the comments don't make a point. I can see the appeal, I can tell why people like it, but I don't like the way it changes the feel of my character." Thanks for the feedback, I'm applying it for my other rigs, but I want to keep this one the way it is.

I'm sorry I was defencive from the start, I've realised that that's no better than giving toxic feedback, but I promise I'll be more welcoming with criticism if you don't make me feel like I'm sitting on the hot chair every time I post something. I'm open to criticism, but I'd also like to hear where I've done stuff right, if we understand each other now.
I admit I've messed up, but I wasn't the only one. Now I'm pretty sure we're all mature enough to move on and treat each other better. Once again, sorry on my part

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44 minutes ago, SharpWind said:

 

I've recently made a video where i called everyone out. People who criticised, as well as me, who retaliated. The situation was pretty pointless and dumb from all of us.

The feedback here tends to be pretty aggressive, which is dumb, and I usually come to this place with a mindset, which says "these people just wanna trash stuff", which is even dumber. Like i've said in the video, we're all trying to improve and enjoy this. A hobby shouldn't feel pressured and we should be proud of each other and help each other improve, not try to make things harder for each other.
I've moved the pupils closer together, but only to an extend I feel comfortable with, but I've started putting pupils closer for my other rigs.
"I'm not saying that the comments don't make a point. I can see the appeal, I can tell why people like it, but I don't like the way it changes the feel of my character." Thanks for the feedback, I'm applying it for my other rigs, but I want to keep this one the way it is.

I'm sorry I was defencive from the start, I've realised that that's no better than giving toxic feedback, but I promise I'll be more welcoming with criticism if you don't make me feel like I'm sitting on the hot chair every time I post something. I'm open to criticism, but I'd also like to hear where I've done stuff right, if we understand each other now.
I admit I've messed up, but I wasn't the only one. Now I'm pretty sure we're all mature enough to move on and treat each other better. Once again, sorry on my part

Exactly. No single side has all of the blame for this, and I'm glad you know that too.

On a different note, in regards to your video... while I do completely understand your intention (since there definitely is a problem with overly-harsh criticism that needs to be addressed), I really don't agree with the name you gave the video.
"The Mine-imator Community is TOXIC..."
Clickbait or not, implying everyone in the community is toxic like that is not fair in the slightest, and paints the entire community in a bad light.

I know this likely wasn't your intention, but don't you think this is needlessly harsh?

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2 minutes ago, __Mine__ said:

Exactly. No single side has all of the blame for this, and I'm glad you know that too.

On a different note, in regards to your video... while I do completely understand your intention (since there definitely is a problem with overly-harsh criticism that needs to be addressed), I really don't agree with the name you gave the video.
"The Mine-imator Community is TOXIC..."
Clickbait or not, implying everyone in the community is toxic like that is not fair in the slightest, and paints the entire community in a bad light.

I know this likely wasn't your intention, but don't you think this is needlessly harsh?

Yeah, i agree
I actually did it this way to attract attention (clickbait)
I was planning on changing the name to something more neutral once the situation settles a bit, and I think now is a great time to do that

Edited by SharpWind
typo
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On 12/26/2020 at 7:57 AM, CandyCat449 said:

I didn't mean to sound mean. So, sorry!

So off subject: just wondering, was I featured in the Video?

I'm not sure who was featured and lots of replies i've gotten were actually pretty constructive. The whole argument was a mixup of a few toxic people and me, getting defensive way too quickly, which upset more people. It was pretty dumb and i'm glad it's behind us
As far as the tutorial goes, I'll put it on the list, so people can vote for it the next time i make a voting poll in my sicrod server
Happy New Year!

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Happy New Year!!!

Okay this is my lucky day. 1: I found out you like Hemitcraft because I also like that server!

2: And that a Youtuber replied to me!

And here is a side question: what Hermits do you watch? I watch Grian and Mumbo Jumbo!

Edited by CandyCat449
I messed up a word
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